Talk:Criticism of Esperanto

Klingon

...no other constructed language has approached the number of Esperanto speakers or has an extensive body of literature like Esperanto.

This is interesting. Those conlangs that might compete with Esperanto in popularity have been around for much shorter periods of time. The Klingon Dictionary has sold more than a quarter of a million copies, and Klingon as a language has only existed for about 15 years. I'd like to see how Klingon does over the next hundred years; maybe it will catch up to Esperanto. You never know... :D thefamouseccles 23:21, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

15 years after it was published (so by 1902), Esperanto was already in use internationally, and 3 years later the first World Congress was held. I somehow don't think Klingon will have anything equivalent in the next 3 years - at Klingon conferences few people speak anything but English. Just because 250,000 Star Trek fans might have the Klingon dictionary on their bookshelves doesn't mean that more than a handful of the most dedicated can as much as hold the simplest conversation in Klingon. The reason is straighforward: it was never designed to be a spoken language, but to represent the way an extra-terrestrial race might speak - in someone's imagination!

Compare conlangs with what Esperanto achieved at the same period in its development - rather than speculate about what they might do should they still be around at the age Esperanto is now. Don't forget that Esperanto wasn't the first conlang - there were hundreds before it, as well as hundreds since. Also, don't imagine that the reason Esperanto hasn't been universally adopted is because of some inherent deficiency, and that all we need to do to get it accepted is to "fix" it in some way - the painful truth is that any such language will face the same political obstacles as Esperanto no matter how it might be constructed. --Tiffer 23:22, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I'd like to weigh in here, because the Esperantist viewpoint always seems to be to view Esperanto as a perfect language, and that therefore everyone should speak it, and the people fighting against them like the Idists, which Esperantists pretend don't even exist say that the reason there isn't universal adoption is because of some flaw in Esperanto which must be 'fixed', then it will be a perfect language adopted by everyone. Neither viewpoint is correct. There is no such thing as a perfect language. Esperanto may be easy to learn for some Europeans (not me personally, but some), but it's not easy to learn for non-Europeans. Not only this, but easiness to learn does not make a language perfect. If everyone in Europe spoke Esperanto as their native language they would be severely disadvantaged in learning any other language, since they would have no equivalent in their own language for complex grammar ideas. Then there's the culture consideration. Esperanto may have lots of books and such, but it possesses hardly any music in any style. Natural languages have vast bodies of beautiful music, but these languages are dying to give life to a culturally barren language like Esperanto. Also, if we really want to go down the road of simplicity, the presence of the useless verb 'to be' in Esperanto. It doesn't exist in some languages. Nor do articles, yet there is never ambiguity. There's also the relative poverty of roots, and the insanity of not having a different word for good and bad. Bad is 'good-bad', impossible is 'possible-bad', down is probably 'up-bad'. This may mean fewer roots to learn but it also means I'm stuck if I forget one because there's nothing else to lean on, and it makes it harder to convey slight differences in meaning. Zamenhof has turned his language into a religion that cannot be changed, and declared it the most simple, the best, etc. The flaws are, to me, clear, just as they are with every language under the sun. If Esperanto wishes to be treated as a language it should accept its flaws like a language.

I'd like to point out that you are incorrect in your understanding of the 'mal-' prefix. It does not mean 'bad', it comes from 'malo', meaning opposite. Malbona means 'the opposite of good', malebla, 'the opposite of possible' (which can also be said as neeble, 'not possible', if that's not to your liking), etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:F220:C1FD:79F2:17D9:59BD:D46 (talk) 18:28, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

expansion

I'll make a stab at addressing some of these issues over the next few days, as well as bringing up some new ones. Of course, I have my own biases, so I'd appreciate any feedback. kwami 01:30, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)

Why even an article "Criticism of Esperanto"?

I wonder why Wikipedia has an article like this for Esperanto (and it should be divided in pro/cons sections by the way) and English does not. I wonder why even in the article "Esperanto" theres's a criticism part (and this one is linked to it) and in the English one there's not. I wonder if wikipedia is neutral enough here.

English is spoken by 30% of the world at some level, I think it would be more interesting for wikipedia users to write an article critizing English as a bridge language than an Esperanto one. English didn't originate in order to act as a interethnic language, it lacks lot of things many planned language as Esperanto do not. It's like criticizing a car for being artificial and watching all the world using british horses to travel to Paris and not critizing that. Here there's no mention that comparing with the criticism it could be done of the alternatives we had and still have (always "accepting" the strongest language of the time/half-century, Latin, French, English, Chinese later) the criticism of Esperanto is derisory/trivial for the same purpose acting as a "bridge language". I see a kind of hidden information... This mention should be in every single article "Criticism of X" created.

Here's another point: Is Esperanto sexist? I wouldn't say so so convinced, knowing "malina" is a common way to write "male" (derived from ina, feMALE, with the preffix for opposite mal-) in esperanto congress forms. Neither if kuzo and edzino has a female origin (kuzin' edzin') and is the opposite case. How could I add that point of view if there's no pro section? Is it fair for those who do want to defend their language and commonly know way more about it than those who criticize it?)

Is Esperanto opened to public criticism on Wikipedia because of it's planned origin (as Indonesian...) but English, Spanish, Indonesia (too nativized now) are not? (artificial too... words didn't grow form trees, you know?). I don't get why this http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Grin_Report was speedydeleted for not being important enough and this one remains here... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alekso92 (talk • contribs) 02:21, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

In general, Wikipedia don't like 'criticism' sections and articles, because it draws attention to a very neagtive viewpoint. Criticism - bad as well as good - should be included in the article, instead of staying seperated.--Momo Monitor (talk) 01:07, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Sources

Since 2013 citations missed. No one added them. Now I delete every content with no citation. Of course I will try to find sources for all of it, but if I can't, I will delete it. --Momo Monitor (talk) 14:15, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Merge

I've merged all content. How to delete this article? --Momo Monitor (talk) 14:39, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

It shouldn't be deleted proper. Instead, it should be redirected, which I've just did. --JorisvS (talk) 17:12, 14 April 2016 (UTC)